Talking About Breaking The Gender Binary, Slow Fashion, and Body Euphoria on the Unruly Podcast

I was so excited to sit down with Calen Otto this last week for their Unruly podcast because it felt like talking to someone who truly gets what we’re trying to build at Origami Customs. Unruly is a queer travel podcast that dives into the intersections of identity, movement, and community, and that’s exactly where my own story began.

Calen (they/them) and I first connected through our shared obsession with anti-capitalist business practices and how queer folks can build mutual aid into our work without compromising our values. When they heard that I started Origami Customs while traveling through Honduras, they wanted to dig deeper into how this business grew out of both necessity and possibility.

Our conversation on the podcast wandered through so many threads: how travel shaped my gender identity, why we refuse to participate in capitalist norms like the “fat tax,” how fashion’s sizing standards are rooted in harm, and how scarcity culture traps us in fast fashion. We even talked about how to approach Black Friday without feeding into disposability culture, and what it means to run an anti-capitalist business inside an ultra-capitalist world.

Most of all, we kept coming back to joy: queer joy, community care, and the small superpowers we all carry. I hope this conversation reminds you to keep building chosen family and making your own rules, wherever you are. Thanks to Calen for having me on! 

You can listen to the podcast on YouTube or one of Calen’s other channels, or keep reading for the full transcript! 

Transcript: “Breaking The Gender Binary, Slow Fashion, and Body Euphoria” on the Unruly Podcast with Calen Otto

About the Unruly Queer Travel Podcast

Calen: There’s something about being at home in your own body and being seen for who you are that’s really life-changing, honestly. Welcome to the Unruly Podcast. My name is Calen and I’m your host. Together, we’ll traverse all things travel. But I always talk about travel magic, because that happens if you leave some space for activism. 

So we can see that these ideas of oppressing animals develop very closely with our ideas of oppressing people and women. Alternative living, who we are is nature, who we are is creativity, who we are is power, and more. The system hates a rebel. I just like to encourage everybody to keep being their beautiful, unique, individual selves. All right, let’s get unruly.

Hello and welcome to this absolute sanctuary of an episode. We are right on the cusp of the holiday season, so I’m sure that y’all are also feeling the way-too-muchness of it all. So many of us experience family issues, maybe body issues, overconsumption, and it’s just so overwhelming.

So, in today’s episode, we want to bring you the opposite of that. We want to bring you queer joy, embodied euphoria, and alternative world-, family-, and business-building. We also tackle topics like fat tax and fast fashion, which are applicable all year long.

About Unruly Queer and Ethical Group Trips 

Now, swinging back around to that queer joy, I have to let y’all know that we still have spots open on our 2026 trip to Finca Ganadito in the Osa Peninsula of Costa Rica. I’ve talked about the details a lot in the introductions of the past couple of episodes, so you can go back and listen. But this trip is all about embracing alternative living, building in-person community, and, my favorite, sea turtle conservation work.

We’re sometimes told that it isn’t all fun and games, but on these trips we aim to do just that. We reset our nervous systems together through somatic movement, play, outdoor adventures, hands-on volunteering, and honestly, being inspired by each other.

When you travel with us, you know that your money is going to small, locally owned, vegan, queer, woman-, and Indigenous-owned businesses. This makes us different from a lot of other group trip companies, and we want to make travel as accessible as possible. So we offer very customizable payment plans.

Additionally, every time you join one of our group trips, part of your trip fee goes directly to our AUA Desapo Scholarship, where we take a queer or trans person on a trip with us completely cost-free. If you’re interested in applying for that scholarship, stay tuned because we’ll be sharing more about it in January. And if you’re interested in joining me on one of these epic adventures, be sure to check out the link in the show notes. 

In this episode, you hear me reference a recent trip to the Amazon of Peru. It was one of the best trips of my life. No joke. I've traveled a lot. And if you're following me on social media, you'll see that I was completely in love with it. So, you're hearing it here first. We are going back again in June of 2026. So, if Costa Rica or the Amazon are on your bucket list, travel with us, and travel ethically. You can always find the details at unrulytravel.com.

Introduction to Rae Hill of Origami Customs

Calen: Now, speaking of ethics, our guest today is Rae Hill, the founder of Origami Customs, a trans and gender-diverse clothing brand and community program that started on the road and is now based in Montreal. Their work has been featured in hundreds of major publications such as The New York Times, Teen Vogue, BuzzFeed, and more.

In addition to their garment production and mutual aid work, they’ve been an international speaker on gender affirmation, ethical labor practices, sustainable fashion, and trans-integral business practices. They draw on their impressive background in sociology, experience in the fashion industry, and trans healthcare advocacy work over the past 15 years to pull it all together. Without further ado, here’s Rae Hill.

Well, Rae, welcome to the Unruly Podcast. I’m glad that we are finally making this happen.

Rae: Me too. It’s really good to be here.

Calen: Yes! So, I have lots of questions for you. I want to touch a little bit, well, a lot, on consumerism, and a little bit on Black Friday,, since that’s something that’s going to be timely with this episode coming out.

But my surprise question for you is: Is there one item of clothing or a garment that has been your ultimate favorite and has inspired the work that you do?

 Rae: Oo, a bonus question right out of the gate. I like it. Yeah, we’re diving in. And, something that I have made, or someone else’s garment that inspired me?

Calen: Either one.

Rae: Gosh. I mean, I’ve been creating iterations of my binders for myself for many years before they were ever in production. And as someone with a kind of gender-fluid identity, I never found something that felt good for me. So what I started creating was this in-between, flexible, hybrid type of compression, stuff that really worked for me. I didn’t see anyone else doing that, and it ended up being something that, as we could have guessed, worked for a lot of other people too.

Designing that for myself inspired a lot of the ways I thought about getting rid of binaries even within gender-affirming garments, and the way we conceptualize what products are “for” whom.

Calen: I’m wondering too, when you’re saying that, if you’ve noticed that even in the queer community or in these gender-fluid spaces, we end up creating boxes in that as well. Like social boxes, and then we’re trying to fit into those, or trying to fit other people into them.

Rae: This has been so much a part of my work. Trying not to, as I say, “race to the bottom” in terms of fashion. A lot of people design “unisex” stuff, which is just like, what is the most plain, beige, boxy stuff we could ever imagine? It’s like, no. There can be creativity, and it doesn’t have to be like “for trans men,” “for trans women.” We’re just recreating the same gender stereotypes that didn’t work. I don’t want that.

Calen: I’m really impressed, because I hardly ever see what you’re doing in clothing items. Like, when I go to look for binders or even pants or something like that, it’s so difficult to find something that’s comfortable and feels good for me.

So this would be a great opportunity for you to introduce yourself to our audience and tell them who you are. People are like, “What are you talking about?”

Introduction to Origami Customs

Rae: I’m Rae Hill. I use they/them pronouns. I am the owner and founder of Origami Customs, which is a customized line of gender-affirming garments. I’ve been doing this work for almost 16 years. We were one of the frontrunners in this industry and I am now the biggest gender-affirming garment maker in Canada.

It’s really important to me that everything was made ethically from the very beginning. I have a team of queer and trans people here in Montreal that I have personally trained to customize all of these gender-affirming garments to people’s measurements.

So everything is hand-sewn here in Montreal, and all of the money and profits from the company go back into living wages and gender-affirming healthcare for the people who are making the garments. So it’s very, well, we’re going to talk a lot about this in a minute, right? This kind of circular mutual-aid economy, but within a business structure. That was essentially baked in from the beginning.

Calen: I was listening to you in another podcast episode, and I feel like you created a blueprint for other businesses. It reminds me of bushwhacking through the world, you’re just fighting through all this stuff.

Rae: It’s true. There was no roadmap when I started doing this. And even now, it’s why I feel so passionate about teaching other businesses how to do this, because everyone feels like they’re reinventing the wheel every time they try to make ethical policy, HR, healthcare, even hiring and diverse marketing. There’s all this stuff, and it’s like, there are people who have been doing this. Maybe there were people before me that I didn’t know about or get mentorship from.

So coming in now, either in trans-integral businesses and helping them, or going to larger organizations and companies and saying, “Hey, you don’t want this to be an afterthought. Let’s get you in on the ground level. Let’s start integrating practices that are actually what trans people want when they’re involved in your company.”

Calen: I’m excited to talk to you for many reasons. One is for people who are thinking about starting a business, these are things they can consider. Two, to learn about what you do. And three, for the business owners listening now: hopefully they can take little tidbits of this and apply it, because it’s never too late to change. And it’s so important right now to lean this way, I mean, actually dive full-fledged into these business practices.

Rae: Yeah. There’s a whole framework, like you said, that I’ve created, and I’m really excited to be able to bring that to the world. People can absolutely get tips from this, and there are so many more resources that I offer to the community.

How Origami Customs Began with a Travelling Sewing Machine

Calen: This started as a travel podcast. I heard a little bit about your sewing machine and how it would have a million passport stamps if it had a passport. I’d love to know how travel intersected with your business as you were starting out.

Rae: Yeah, absolutely. We have to go back many, many years. I moved to Honduras straight out of high school. Basically, I was 18 when I moved there, and that’s where the business started. My ex-wife and I owned a small importing shop for beachwear; we were doing this whole beach-and-scuba thing. That was our community. So there were tons of people who needed swimwear that would hold up to being in the water all day.

We were importing stuff, and then we ran into the same problem everyone encounters when buying swimwear and lingerie: I don’t feel good. Things don’t fit me. They don’t make things in my size. I’m in between sizes. 

I’m a self-taught sewer; as soon as I could get my hands on my mom’s sewing machine, I was sewing. It runs in my family, everyone sewed their own clothes. So I had this skill set of creating custom patterns and altering designs. I started making swimwear for my community. I started selling it in the shop, and it did really well.

From there, I started an Etsy shop, and the ball just got rolling. I spent almost six years on that island. Then I moved, very long story very short, I moved to Costa Rica for another two years. That’s where I really dove more into developing my line. I built my website, I started selling more, and I launched my lingerie line.

I was also starting to explore my own identity and my own gender, and starting to wrap my head around what gender-affirming garments could look like. But it wasn’t until I moved back to Canada in 2012, I think, that I re-engaged with my gender-diverse community and really saw the gaps, what people were missing. Folks would tell me they’d been prototyping things on their own but didn’t have the skill set to create them.

And to answer your question about travel: throughout those years I was constantly back and forth, traveling all around Central America, then back and forth to the States and Canada. It was a huge part of my life. I would literally carry my little sewing machine on the plane with me because I was so worried the timing would get knocked out if I put it in checked luggage. 

I had this little semi-industrial Singer that got me through those first years, a total workhorse. But yes, it came with me on many flights. Fun fact: you can bring a sewing machine on a plane, you just take the needle out. It was a very unconventional way of starting a business.

How Travelling Impacted Origami Customs

Calen: I was also wondering, because it’s impacted me a lot, how travel, and seeing different cultures, influenced you during that period when you were exploring your gender identity.

Rae: It definitely did. I was living in a much more conservative culture. For example, my ex-wife and I had to go to Canada to get married because marriage equality wasn’t legal in Honduras. It still isn’t. That affected me. But we also lived on a very multicultural island because it was a tourist destination, so I was influenced by so many different people coming through from all over the world. I was getting exposed to so many different personalities, gender identities, everything.

Travel also lets you see how people present themselves, how clothing is used to express gender. And throughout those years, when I’d go back to Canada or the States, I could see how things were evolving. 

We’re talking about 2008 and on, the early years of the movement. There were big trans names in the media for the first time, like Laverne Cox and Caitlyn Jenner. I was on the forefront of wondering what these conversations were going to become, and whether they would reach the place I was living. They didn’t. Most people there had no idea what it meant to be transgender. Gender diversity was treated very differently, sometimes in scary ways. I think it pushed me to find places where I could explore.

Calen: And you definitely have those hubs around the world. Even in super rural places in Central and South America, sometimes I find myself in really trans spaces, and I'm surprised. I’m sure I’m seeking them out, even subconsciously, but I’m still like, wow. I get really inspired by the style, by the way people carve out community.

Rae: And in those rural communities, too. People gravitate toward more international spaces because transness becomes more “invisible” when there are so many identities and presentations represented. Someone from the Honduran mainland, which is much more conservative, could come into that space and be trans in a way they couldn’t at home. It was really cool to see.

Calen: Yeah, totally. When you were talking, I was thinking of a recent group trip I led to Peru. In the city, that’s where I saw more trans people, working in hostels, in clubs, in tourist spaces. It’s an interesting intersection of community and access.

Rae: Yeah. In a world where we can do so much harm, it’s such an advantage. I really agree.

Why Origami Customs Removes the “Fat Tax”

Calen: So when you were starting your business, and now, you were thinking about the “fat tax” that other businesses apply to garments. Can you explain that to our listeners and talk about how you address it?

Rae: Yeah. If people don’t know the term, “fat tax” generally refers to, okay, let me back up. When a brand decides to design a line, they’ll usually release it from, say, extra-small to maybe large or extra-large, and test whether it sells. Those are the sizes that sell the most, so they won’t develop a larger size range unless they know it will sell. That means people get left out.

And if they do develop the plus-size range, it’s branded differently and usually marked up, because in their mind: more fabric = higher price. That upcharge is what we call a fat tax. It’s baked into every part of fashion, pattern design, manufacturing, collections, everything.

For me, it was important that no size got left out, which is why everything is custom. There’s no person “too small” or “too big” to have clothing that fits them well. But that also means spending time and money on fit-testing across more sizes. Most brands only fit-test on two or three people. We sell most commonly between XXS and 5XL, and I’m developing my 6X and 7X patterns now. That means testing many more points on the size chart.

But it mattered that we didn’t leave people out, and that we priced at a 1X average. That’s very different from the industry standard, where pricing is based on a small or medium. We moved it up because people whose garments require more material shouldn’t bear that cost. It should be built into the price for everyone.

Calen: And do you know the history of how brands even chose their “standard size”? Because I’m thinking back to when I was a kid, magazines zooming in on celebrities’ cellulite, the obsessive focus on thinness. And people internalize that without ever thinking about where sizing even comes from.

Rae: Yeah. That actually comes from the runway pipeline. A high-end designer creates a collection, and everything is built in sample size. If someone wants to model those garments, they have to fit that sample size, usually between a 0 and a 2. Historically, around a size 2. Anyone who wasn’t that size couldn’t walk the runway.

It’s shifted a bit, there are plus-size models now, but overall it hasn’t changed much. When those runway garments get developed into a size run, that sample size becomes the base pattern for all the other sizes. So everything starts from this very small body. But as bodies get bigger, the ratios of how we grow aren’t the same. We don’t get wider at the exact rate we get taller, for example. Grading plus sizes is a specific skill set. It requires more skilled labor. That’s why companies don’t do it.

How Origami Customs Designs for Changing Bodies

Calen: I’m also thinking about how our bodies change over time. Is there a way you account for that in the clothing you make?

Rae: Yeah, for sure. First of all, all the materials I use for gender-affirming garments have stretch. I won’t go into too much construction detail, but there are different ways of making compression. Some use non-stretch materials with flexible paneling. Another is called 360-stretch, where everything is flexible. That allows for range of motion, breathability, safety, and it allows the garment to adapt to changing bodies. The compression is modular in that way, and you don’t see that a lot.

 Calen: No, I know you think about this all the time, obviously, but I haven’t thought a lot about it until now. How the sizes and the clothing we see, and how it fits us, impacts our mental health and how we think about our own bodies. So having this range of sizes, and the ability for your body to change and still wear these garments, is huge, obviously.

And so yeah, I’m so excited about the garments that you produce. And I think something that’s been on people’s minds lately is the climate and our waste. As you know, there are endless garments made in fast fashion that are being incinerated or tossed into landfills. But what you’re making is so personal and made to last longer.

I’m wondering if you have any thoughts, because you have programs where you can bring these garments to people who otherwise wouldn’t be able to afford them. But I think some of us are stuck in this mindset of, “Ugh, I can’t spend this much money on a garment,” and instead we buy a crappy piece seven times. And we don’t realize that over time, it’s the same price. So I’m wondering if you could speak to that.

How Origami Customs Creates Clothing That Lasts

Rae: Of course, it’s hard. We all get stuck in that cycle, right? Especially when we have this scarcity mindset and there’s fear everywhere right now. We want instant gratification and affordability in the moment.

But what I’m trying to do is create garments that last for a really long time. And of course, the materials we use aren’t always natural fibers. We have a bamboo line, which is a more sustainable fabric. But I would argue that the power mesh and the materials we use for gender-affirming garments will last you for 10 years. You can wear the same binder, the same gaff. We constantly have customers saying, “I’ve been wearing this for a decade and it hasn’t fallen apart.”

So how many Amazon products would you have bought in that time that just completely fell apart?

And with the custom sizing as well, you’re going to get a garment that actually fits you. We take the time to custom-pattern each garment for each person. I train each of my employees to think about the person. We get information from them, we get notes about how they want to feel in it, what they want to use it for, how they want to exist in the world.

And we conceptualize that from start to finish. One person handles the product through the whole process. They’re thinking about how it’s going to move, how it’s designed, whether we can modify it to make it more accessible, easier to wear, better for what they’re using it for. All things you’re not getting with mass-manufactured garments.

Calen: No, not at all. And in our previous episode, we talked about “slow death.” People being really intentional about planning their deaths and how they want end-of-life to be. And now I feel like we’re talking about slow clothing. Slow production of clothing that’s handmade and super intentional.

And I think part of that conversation can be: How do I envision the end of life of this piece of clothing? Where is it going to end up? I like to think about that when I buy anything. At what point, and how, is this going to move on. Whether that’s to a landfill or recycling or whatever it is? Can I have that in mind when I buy it, to make sure I take ownership over this piece?

This material item that I’m going to carry with me, I want to know where it’s going to end up. A lot of your pieces can be passed hand-to-hand if someone outgrows them. That’s a benefit. And you can always alter things, or someone else can alter them. Because of the handmade construction, you know how to go in and make those changes.

Rae: Yeah, that’s really the benefit. As people change, or want a different style or design, we can alter the garment. Because of the way we make things, we know where every seam is, what everything is doing.

Calen: That’s beautiful. I hope listeners take that away. That anytime they make a purchase, whether it’s with you or at the grocery store they imagine how that garment or item will end up. Can it be custom-changed if needed? How can we buy things that have long lives?

And while you were talking, I was thinking about when I went to Peru. We visited an Indigenous village, and before we went, our local guide briefed us: it’s in this beautiful area in the Amazon, but you’ll see trash outside of people’s houses, just thrown on the ground.

And he said it’s not because people aren’t thinking about it. The concept is different. They’re like, “This is ours now, and we’re not going to throw it in a landfill where no one can see it and pretend it’s not ours. We’re taking ownership. We’ll keep it until there’s something else to do with it.”

And that’s shocking to people in Canada or the U.S., where we want to get rid of it, out of sight. There’s a responsibility there. “I made the choice to bring this into my life, and now I’m owning it.” Many of us don’t think about that, but really should.

How Origami Customs Works to be Anti-Capitalist

Calen: Well, you are doing business differently in a capitalist society that feels like it’s putting more pressure on us every day. But you’re still holding strong with your values. What does it mean to you to live anti-capitalist while you’re still stuck in the system?

Rae: I mean, you’re asking me this at a very poignant time. It’s a struggle. It’s really, really hard right now, especially because so much of my work is with trans people directly, and with organizations supporting gender-diverse people across the world.

We’re in a moment where a lot of the funding for those programs has been dropped, and we really struggle to get by. Our margins are super slim. If we can still provide healthcare for eight employees, that’s amazing. Anything above that is a long shot right now.

But there’s no compromising on the values. There’s no going back on the decisions I made at the beginning. Things are going to be produced ethically. People are going to get a living wage. People are going to get healthcare. You can’t undo that, it’s how this was built.

I like to say there’s an aspect of mutual aid in what I do, because I have this oxygen-mask theory: you have to take care of the people who are making the garments first, and that includes me, which I sometimes forget, before you can ripple out to the people you’re manufacturing for.

Of course, I don’t think we can truly claim mutual aid. This is a for-profit company, so that framework doesn’t fully apply. But those are the values I bring into decision-making: HR, policy, marketing, pricing.

I grew up in that culture. I’ve been around trans people my whole life. I’ve worked in nonprofits. I’ve seen how communities support each other. Trans people are incredible at supporting one another outside capitalist structures because we’re often excluded from employment, from healthcare, from family structures that cis straight people rely on. So we’ve had to support one another.

So yes, this has to be a business, because we need money to do all the things we want to do. But how do we do that with heart? You have to turn everything on its head. Look at how things have been done and ask: Does this actually resonate with us? Is this what we want?

At our company, even the people with manual labor jobs have a seat at the table. We make decisions collectively. If I bring an idea to my staff, like a community day or a marketing project, I get feedback from everyone. They have viewpoints and experiences that I don’t, and that’s invaluable.

For someone in a manual labor position, that’s unheard of. But we operate with this intentional communal framework I haven’t seen elsewhere.

Calen: I would also add, I feel like queer people in general, I don’t even want to say it’s a superpower because it’s forced in so many ways, but we have this ability to erase what we’ve been taught we’re supposed to do and ask: “How do I feel? How can I feel more like myself?”

And that’s the beautiful thing about queer and trans people. If people are listening and they don’t have queer and trans friends, or they’re not immersed in that community, it’s almost hard to explain.

There’s so much beauty in it. And you’re bringing that into business. I think it boils down to a responsibility to one another. There’s a lot of empathy there.

I don’t think we can exist without that, especially right now. It’s so hard just to exist. And we can’t go on without supporting one another or trying to understand what it’s like to be in other people’s shoes. There’s no way forward without that mindset anymore.

About Origami Customs’ Mutual Aid Program

Calen: And bringing it back to your business, you have programs where you get garments to people who otherwise couldn’t afford them, and you have this mutual-aid spirit built in. Could you tell us a little bit about that?

Rae: I'm so excited to tell you about this. I've been working on it a lot lately because it's so needed. It started about seven years ago, so about halfway through my career. We started working with one organization, Point of Pride, in the States that was getting gaffs and binders out to people who couldn't afford them. 

And I thought, that's amazing! Not everyone can buy at the ethical price point, and for those who can, that's great, their money goes back into the program. Basically, people can reach out to these nonprofit organizations or student unions at universities and request gender-affirming garments, usually for free or for a very small donation depending on the program.

Over those seven years, I've built up this program. We now work with about 110 organizations on five continents. These are real relationships that I’ve built with the people running the programs. 

There are often intersecting identities for trans people, so often we are more at risk for homelessness, HIV/AIDS, or are refugees and migrants. Trans people are much more affected by limited income and limited access to resources. All of that matters. We want to make sure we're catching people who are falling through the cracks in accessing these resources.

I do everything I can with these organizations: I provide free resources, training, safety guides, and I work with them one-on-one. It's not just about giving them gender-affirming garments, we're sending out about 500 per month to these organizations, which I’m really proud of. That’s a lot of work built up over time. I also meet with people, in person if I can, or online, to teach them how to use gaffs and binders safely.

We just started with a program in Uganda called the Feminist Inclusion Center, a trans-led organization. We’re doing training with them because access to this information is much less than what we have here. I really try to support these programs and meet them where they’re at, but also to learn from them. I’m not coming in saying, "This is how you run the show." 

They have so much information about what people need and how they’re experiencing gender-affirming care, medical or non-medical. This is where I see mutual aid happening. Technically, we’re still in business, but we’re sharing information and resources. It really feels like a grassroots network, and I’m very proud of that work.

Calen: That’s incredible. I’m just imagining all these little lines that span across the globe of care, garments, and information being passed along. I think that’s so important right now.

Rae: Yeah, for sure. People are losing access to gender-affirming healthcare, especially in the States right now. When people lose access to medical care, non-medical gender-affirming garments become so much more important. They’re like a first line of defense, especially for younger people.

How Gender-Affirming Clothing Helps You Feel Joy

Calen: Can you speak to what it feels like to have a garment that makes you feel like yourself? Some of our listeners are just figuring things out and may want to try binders or other garments. Can you describe that feeling- the gender joy?

Rae: Yeah. If someone has never experienced gender euphoria, it’s really beautiful and indescribable. There’s something about being at home in your own body and being seen for who you are. It’s life-changing. I’ve experienced that, and I’m lucky to live in a supportive community where I can present differently, use different names or pronouns. 

Not everyone has that privilege. Finding safe spaces and being accepted for who you are is life-changing. Even small acts, like going to a thrift store, picking up a dress, and wearing it around your house, these defy gender norms and allow for playful, creative exploration.

There’s so much fear right now. Creativity feels more restricted than before; people feel the need to hide and protect themselves. But garments like binders and gaffs give people a chance to explore, feel, and reflect joy back in community. That shared joy is more important than experiencing it alone.

Calen: I thought of two things while you were talking. One, when I’m wearing garments that truly feel good, I can be more present. I’m not worrying if it looks weird or fits wrong. Two, since we’re recording this on Halloween, I went to my first Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Rae: Congratulations! Welcome to the cult.

Calen: It was so good. If it happened every week, I would be there. The euphoria you described is exactly what I felt. For listeners, look for spaces in your community like this that celebrate queerness and gender joy.

Rae: Absolutely. Montreal has a big community around this; the live show has been running for 50 years. Spaces like this let people experiment, revel in community, explore sensuality, sexuality, and gender joy. Even with critiques of Rocky Horror, it fosters this sense of community and discovery.

Calen: Thinking about that gets me so energized.

Rae: I’d encourage listeners to try it out and see if you get addicted too.

Dealing With Black Friday as an Ethical Business

Calen: As we move closer to Black Friday, what comes up for you as a business owner, especially in consumer culture?

Rae: It’s gotten huge, and I understand small businesses are struggling. Many feel pressured to participate to be seen. But it’s now an entire month, and small businesses can’t slash prices like bigger companies. I stopped participating a few years ago because people find me for specific reasons. I want to offer discounts when possible, but I can’t compete in “how cheap can we go” consumerism.

I want people to buy from me because they resonate with ethical, handmade garments and know the people making them. Everyone’s struggling financially right now, so we cut breaks when possible, but I focus on those who care about the values behind the garments. Mainstream consumerism doesn’t allow for this model.

Calen: What advice do you have for listeners opening their minds to this, especially around Black Friday?

Rae: I take a harm reduction approach. I’m not judging people for buying things cheaply, they may need it. If you want to step back, consider Buy Nothing Day, ethical alternatives, local or handmade sources. You don’t have to go cold turkey; small choices help. Consider the lifespan, materials, fair labor, and where the product comes from. Over time, it becomes routine, and you notice alternatives, like farmer’s markets, artisan markets, bulk stores.

Calen: Thank you. With all the pressure around the holidays, do you have encouragement for queer and trans folks?

Rae: This can be a hard time with trauma, drama, and family pressures. Queer and trans people historically create family and community in unique ways. Hold onto people you care about, reach out, and participate in mutual aid. Even small actions- child care, rides, food- help subvert dependence on systems or biological family. Show up authentically, even when it’s hard.

Every time I see my community face-to-face, have conversations, make jokes, or go to events like Rocky Horror, it’s worth it. Especially for those with social anxiety. It’s important to be present. People value us; they want us in those spaces.

Thanks For Being Here

Calen: Any last thoughts for listeners?

Rae: I wish I could talk to everyone one-on-one. I want to know what brings people joy, how they organize, and create community and mutual aid, especially during the holidays. I want inspiration from others, which helps me too.

Calen: Me too. I encourage listeners to share their stories; we’ll gather feedback to highlight what people are doing. I’m so glad you joined me today. 

If you want to learn more, head to unrulytravel.com. If today’s conversation made you laugh, cry, feel seen, or inspired, take 30 seconds to follow, rate, and review the show, then share it with a friend. 

Stay unruly!