What It Really Takes to Make Inclusive Fashion – Our Panel at Fat Fashion Fair

When I was invited to speak on a panel about gender and size inclusivity at Calgary’s first-ever Fat Fashion Fair, I knew it was going to be special. But I didn’t realize just how many people were craving this exact conversation—one that goes beyond buzzwords and dives into the real, behind-the-scenes work it takes to make clothing that includes all bodies.

Fat Fashion Fair wasn’t just a runway show. It was a radical gathering for fat celebration, education, and connection, created with so much intention—from sliding scale ticketing and access measures to a curated market and a lineup of panels that centered lived experience. In addition to showing my latest swim collection on the runway, I was honoured to speak on different panels, bringing some of my knowledge from years of working in gender-affirming and inclusive fashion to a community of people who truly get it.

My panel, Gender and Size Inclusivity in the Fashion Industry, was co-presented with Martina Carello of Colour Alchemist—a Calgary-based production partner who specializes in helping brands bring their designs into the world with purpose. 

Martina brings over 30 years of technical fashion experience to the table, and pairing that with my community-based design approach made for a pretty dynamic session. We covered everything from values-based patterning and sustainable scaling to the emotional labour that goes into making clothes for people who’ve been systemically excluded from fashion altogether.

We weren’t there to pat ourselves on the back for being “inclusive.” We were there to share knowledge, offer tools, and open the door to real change—both for brands trying to do better, and for individuals trying to find clothing that truly fits them. Honestly, being on the panel was one of the most affirming moments of my time at the event.

What follows is the full transcript of our panel talk—unedited, unscripted, and shared with love. Whether you're a designer, a fat fashion lover, or someone just beginning to explore what it means to shop (or create) more intentionally, I hope you find something here that resonates.

Let’s keep building a fashion future that reflects all of us.

Introduction To The Panelists

Introduction by Shaneen Robinson

Shaneen: We’re going to introduce you to our next guest panalist, who I had a chance just to briefly speak with, and I’m really excited about what they have to say about their business. So Rae is the founder of Origami Customs, a trans-integral and gender-diverse clothing brand and community program in Montreal. They work with over 100 Organizations to provide life-changing gender-affirmation products to people facing intersectional oppression and financial barriers. 

In addition to running their production studio and community program, Rae also offers consultations and speaking arrangements around the world on gender-affirmation, ethical labour practices, sustainable fashion, and trans-integral business practices. Rae draws from their background in Sociology, experience in the fashion industry, and trans health advocacy work for over 15 years. And Rae is a fashionista! I love the fit! You can come on up here, my dear!

And we also have Martina Carelo with over 30 years of experience in the fashion industry. Martina is a key figure in and leader in events and fashion products, development, and fit excellence. She has mastered the understanding of how clothing should feel, fit, move, and perform for real people across all shapes and sizes. 

It’s this skill that has made her a trusted partner for brands throughout North America. Through Color Alchemist Canada, Marina has helped countless brands bring their ideas to life. Not just through creating beautiful and usable products that speak to her clients’ customers, but also guiding her clients on how to build a strong and sustainable product business.

Martina’s passion is designing purposeful clothing that speaks directly to a brand’s values and to the real needs of their customers. She has set a new standard for what it means to create apparel that doesn’t just look good, but truly fits and empowers. Please come on up! 

Welcome! I’m going to let you guys speak, and maybe I’ll come back up later and ask some questions from the audience. (Shaneen leaves)

2:28

Rae Talks More About Their Background

Rae: Hi everyone, this is so exciting! That was a great introduction. I’m really excited; this is a conversation that I’ve been really looking forward to. I’ve heard a lot of people talk during this convention about things like inclusion and diversity and all of those things, and it’s so beautiful to hear everyone’s perspective and we wanted to bring our perspective about how to be more practical and hands on about what it actually means to create the garments that are size inclusive and inclusive in other ways. We both have a background in making the garments and making the patterns, and we wanted to go into a little bit of the nitty-gritty. 

So, I’ll say a little bit more about what brought me to this work, and then I’ll hand this mic off. Like my bio said, I’ve been doing this for 15 years. I created Origami Customs as an inclusive fashion company, and that means a lot of different things to me, because people need customized garments for lots of different reasons. 

Primarily, I work with the gender-diverse community to create gender-affirmation garments and things like that. And then I also distribute those through a network of organizations that I’ve built up. There are over 100 organizations around the world that distribute those products for free to people who can’t afford them. So that’s where my heart lies, and that program is really important to me.

But for a lot of different reasons, it was important to create customized garments. My products are generally lingerie and swimwear, and you’ll see me closing the runway tonight with my new swim line. And one of those reasons was people who, for a lot of reasons, couldn’t buy off the rack. And we often see this with swimwear specifically. How many people have tried to buy swimwear and had to buy a different-sized top and bottom, or “swimwear doesn’t fit me,” or “they don’t make it in my size.” And for y,x,z reasons, there are so many reasons why this is impossible to find.

And so I make all my patterns myself by hand, a bit old school, and I’ve trained a team of queer and trans people in Montreal to make all the garments. They also know how to customize all these products for the people who buy them. So from the foundation,it was important for me to have inclusivity across the board. Also, in terms of disability accessibility, there are lots of ways in which these garments are made for lots of different bodies. And as the last panelist said, there’s no “one size fits all” solution to these problems, but it’s about trying to find better ways of adding to the community, adding to the fashion conversation about how we can be more inclusive. So, let me pass it off so Martina can talk. 

5:20

Martina Talks More About Her Background

Martina: So, while Rae lives in Montreal, I’m originally from Montreal. And I’ve been in Calgary for 13 years now. So my background, I studied fashion design way back in the 1980s, and I’ve been in the fashion industry ever since. I’ve worked mainly for larger brands and corporations in Montreal and then moved out to Calgary. So I had worked predominantly in Women’s wear, mainly in regular but also in plus-sized for companies like Peningtons, Edition Elle, etc. 

And my background is specifically in the technical areas- so size and fit measurements, all the engineering, all of the “boring” things that fashion designers don’t want to do. But I love that, that’s what brings me joy. Because we can look at something, we can envision something, but if it’s not created properly for the body in front of us, it’s not going to speak the way it’s supposed to speak.

So in coming to Calgary, my company Color Alchemist Canada, I empower start-up brands specifically, or brands that have been in business for less than 10 years. I’ve helped them develop niche products across the board, whether that be a different sizing pathway or adapting to other types of clothing. So it’s become really important to me to see and for me to help others understand that this is really a grassroots movement, and that it really takes people with passion, to bring forth a product for a community that they believe in, like Rae has, and that they feel needs to be seen. And it empowers me and makes me happy when I see my clients succeed in those areas.

7:28 

The Truth About Clothing Sizes

Rae: Do you want to talk about size? So, some of the things we were thinking about were, “What even is size?” Like, when we look at when we look at different companies off the rack, it differs widely, and how that’s kind of changed in the fashion landscape over the years. And you had some really cool examples that I’d love you to share. 

Martina: So, just as a starting point, one question that I get a lot from the women’s wear space is, why don’t we have a standard size chart across the board? Why does one size fit one way in one brand and a different way in another? Now imagine we did have that- we did actually, the United States way back, prewar/ postwar. And all of these sizes were based on women in the military who were 21 years old. K, so that doesn’t speak very broadly for lots of people. 

Sizing in the industry is not a number. When you’re looking for clothing that fits you, seek the brands that you feel best in, and seek the brands that work with your body. And one misconception, and Rae and I had spoken about this, is the whole “2X” conundrum. So 2XL is a really funny size, because people are confused as to, “well, I’m a 2X, but this doesn’t fit me and that doesn’t fit me,” because 2X actually has two faces. 

We have the XXL, which falls more into the regular sizing. So those are people who fit into a regular sizing space, but are just a little fuller figured, or taller, or what have you. And then there’s the 2X+, which is a completely different body shape. And that’s a very important thing for brands to communicate to the public. And I find that the larger brands don’t do a good job at that. Right? It’s very frustrating for someone to walk into a store and not know that. So that’s one area that I think needs a lot of attention.

9:40

Why Larger Sizes Tend To Cost More

Rae: We have so much overlap and so much to share about this. One of the other things we were talking about with sizing is how brands will price their items. So a standard brand will generally use one of the smaller sizes, like the Medium, as the median size of their range, to then buy the fabric and accurately price what’s the average price of that garment. So when we’re looking at things like “fat tax” or why a brand has not extended their size range into larger sizes, there’s a cost that they think of as being “over” what they’ve budgeted, or like it’s an extra cost that they have to absorb. 

As opposed to a brand that thinks, “Okay, maybe the middle size can be 1X.” For myself, I price at a 1X, because that’s about halfway between the different sizes on the range. So all the materials and the way that I cost everything is based at that point along the scale. It’s quite different than how the large brands will do this in the industry. 

It speaks a lot to the way that, not only how things are priced, but also how it’s conceptualized. Instead of having a normal range that’s priced the way it should be, or at a price people expect to pay, and the “extra” sizes, you know that are “harder” and “more expensive.” But in reality, it’s on a spectrum, right? For a brand, there’s no end to that spectrum, because people can send in their measurements anywhere from children to infinity, and the pricing is the same. But that’s not how the industry usually works. 

11:15

How Larger Sizes Fit Differently

Martina: So we need more people like Rae to be doing more customizable products and focusing more on those types of things. From a broad perspective of the mass market, it’s sad that they’re not able to tap into different sizes as easily. The larger brands have a lot of money at stake, and it takes a lot of research. And it’s almost like working with two completely different products. 

I’ll give you an example- When I work with brands who want to embody inclusivity, we address “regular,” and we address “plus size.” We design them differently with different fit models, and we address different strategies to help people look and feel their best. Taking a regular size and grading it all the way up does not work. And it doesn’t make everyone feel and look beautiful. Shape is very important, and I’m sure Rae, you understand that very well. You’re very hands-on with your product, and you’ve learned to work with all the different measurements and shapes to help people feel their best.

We need more new companies to come forward, niche companies to come forward, to undertake this at a bigger level, because that’s the best way that we’re going to actually make it happen. 

12:47

How to Properly Create Larger Clothing Sizes

Rae: Let’s talk more about what it means to create an extended size range and how people can do that, appropriately, and well, and with intention. Because, as we all know, bodies do not proportionally get bigger this way (gestures above their head) as they get larger. Which is what most brands that make a plus-sized range do- they take a straight-sized pattern, and they make it bigger, all the way around, with the same ratio. That is going to fit terribly. It’s not going to work as a garment. 

So it takes people who are willing to build with intention from the beginning- how are my patterns going to fit across the size ranges? I’m very old-school; I hand-draw all my patterns. Mostly now these things a digitized. But there are certain ratios when you get to different sizes that are needed and you need to do a bit of math. And it means bringing in consultation from the beginning of, like you said, who are the people designing, who know what it’s like to live in a bigger body, who know what it’s like to need accessible options?

For me, it’s about gender-affirming options. Where are the people who are going to be wearing my garments, and where are those voices along the way in that process? Those need to be there from the beginning; we can’t just bring those in as an afterthought, or just tack on those extra sizes. Because suddenly, oh, those people need clothes too. And like you said, fit models as well. We need to bring in fit models from the beginning, because across the sizes we need multiple fits. I normally take three or four different points across the range, usually up to a 4X if I can.

But yeah, I feel like for most brands it’s usually just throwing a bone at the end, rather than actually developing a plus-size range. So maybe you could talk a little bit more about your experience about what it’s like to actually have the intention and then build that range in a sustainable way from the beginning. 

14:32

Working with Your Target Customer

Martina: So, when we’re working with new potential brands to bring any product to the forefront, there are a few things that they really need to know. They need to understand who their target market is. Who are they designing for, and why are they designing for them? And the bottom line is, what are the needs of this market, right? What does this market want? Because that’s key. 

The second thing is understanding pricing strategies. Understanding the direction of the fabrication, like a lot of people want to go into sustainability, then that really can greatly affect the cost when designing larger brands. Because if you’re looking at using fabrics like linen and cotton etc, often the fabrics are less wide, so we need to build products strategically, so that is can still be cost-effective for the consumer. And all of this needs to be thought of before the product is created. And then we build from that, because affordability is a very important factor.

15:46

Some of the Challenges We Face in Making Clothing

Rae: Perfect lead-in. I wanted to talk more about the value that’s embedded in these garments. And one other thing that you were talking with me about earlier, is how hard it is for small brands, especially with rolls of fabric, is that we’re getting a much higher cost per meter than big brands are. So it becomes a lot more challenging to bring in, especially with these more sustainable fabrics. 

So one of the things that we talked about before this is what goes into the value of creating well-designed extended ranges. So, first of all, the labour. And this is a big part of it, right, who’s making your clothes? Do you know the people who are hands-on doing this? Have you brought in consultants to do the pattern making and all of this stuff? And also the skill and experience that goes into making something customized. If you’re like me or anyone who’s doing anything made to order, then we obviously want to make sure that we’re paying a fair wage to the people who are making those garments. 

But finding people in the industry is getting harder and harder to be totally honest. Finding people with that skillset, like a lot of the fashion design programs aren’t teaching this anymore, and having the experience to be able to look at someone’s measurements and say, how is this person moving in the world, what are they going to need, how are they going to be wearing this garment, what are their perportions like, and how is it going to feel when it’s onthe body? 

There’s so much more than just the math of creating the pattern, it’s really about visualizing. And finding people, and finding those people access to go training, is a lot of the value, not just the cost, but the value that goes into these products. Did you want to talk more about this?

17:35 

Martina: So as I was saying, I’m one of the anomalies as a designer that’s in an area that no one wants to touch, because it’s boring and it’s more engineering-based, right? And that’s what we’re lacking in the industry, is people who want to go and do the boring things. And not just draw the beautiful pictures and choose the colors and all of those facets. Because it takes a lot of skill and takes many years of study and work to understand. It’s a trade. It’s a trade like becoming any kind of builder of some kind, right? 

You need to learn to understand what you’re working with. We’re working mainly in two dimensions, but we’re creating a three-dimensional experience for people. So it goes back to exactly what you said, where you really need to think about how the person wants to feel and look, and how they’re going to move in these garments, and how it’s going to affect the overall experience of the clothes. So that’s one of the challenges that we face in the industry today.

Rae: I like to call myself a body architect. Because it’s true, it’s really hard to take a 2D pattern and put it on a 3D body. That’s why I like to do it by hand, so I can draw things out. I’m not good with computers, I’m kind of a Boomer like that. So I think, let’s cover a little bit more about the stuff that we had talked about before. And I’m excited to take questions and see if people want to join in this conversation after this. 

19:23

How To Tell If A Brand Is Right For You

Rae: We had talked a little bit about how to identify if a brand is going to be right for you. So it can be really hard to find out how you know the labour practices, how do you know if this was made for your body with intention, and how it will fit. And I think the things we came up with were how do you feel when you’re wearing the clothes, obviously that’s super important. 

But you have to ask, are you seeing your values reflected back to you in the visuals, in who they’re choosing to model? It’s also important to notice who’s lacking from the conversation, visually. How important is it to you where these clothes are designed and made? You know, we’re always going to have to pick and choose these days, where our values lie on the big scale of choice. 

But try and identify, is this information obvious on this brand’s website or social media? And who’s actually involved in the creation of these garments? What kind of fabrics they’re using, a) are they using things that feel good on your body, but b) are these fabrics sustainable in any way, are they regenerative? Are they deadstock? Are they made locally? Things like sustainability is so different to so many different people, and it’s not feasible to say, “this is a sustainable brand and this is not.” Because there are so many different things that go into that, and it’s really about looking at it as a whole and identifying pieces that resonate the most with you. 

Length of wear is also a really important one. So if you’re getting something custom fit, then you’re going to wear it longer, and that means it’s going to remain out of the landfill for longer. So that’s obviously something we want to think about. And then customization, and honestly, for me, philanthropy. Is this brand giving back to the community in ways that are meaningful for you? Is that your community that is close to your heart, and that’s obviously very personal. But these are all the things that I think are important when you’re trying to identify, “is this brand for me?” 

And it can be really hard to find these brands now, but this event is a perfect example of how to connect with brands that are trying to do the right thing by being inclusive and really wonderful in so many ways.

Martina: With smaller brands, it’s harder to include everyone, right? To use sustainable fabrics, cradle to grave, to implement other types of inclusivity and ethical practices within their business and I always tell them, “pick a beast, and I hope the beast you choose is meaningful.” With mindfulness of the environment for sure, with good fabrics, but also the people who make your clothes should be paid fairly. The people who wear the clothes should be well represented, because that’s what we can change and what we can do right now. And we can contribute to the bigger space. 

And smaller brands do not have the money or the backing to tackle all of this. So it’s a matter of the consumer choosing what’s important to them. And what resonates with them most. And you can definitely cross brands. So one thing I tell people is that one brand, maybe you’re going to fit amazing in their shirts and tops, but their pants look horrendous on you. That’s fine. It doesn’t mean it’s not the brand for you. That’s your top brand. Maybe there’s a bottom brand that resonates with you a little bit differently. So those are the types of things that I try to tell my consumers to pay attention to where fit is concerned. And then your values and how you feel in the garment, and how everything makes you feel, such as longevity, is important. 

These things tend to make a garment more expensive, but if you know what you’re looking for and you know what you expect, then you can get that perfect piece for you. And then you will wear it, and it will make a difference in your day-to-day wardrobe. 

Rae: Yeah, definitely. You’ll wear it a lot, and hopefully it will last you a really long time. So, leaving you guys with a couple of things that we would like to impart to you, our takeaways. If we had to boil it down, this was kind of hard. Know your body. Know what you want something to feel like when it’s on your body. Know your values. Know what feels right for you. And find brands that align with the goals and values that you have for yourself and how you want to be represented in the world.

23:55

Do You Ever Work With Clients to Help Design Their Own Outfits?

Rae: So I would love to take questions, and I’m really excited to know if anyone would like us to dive deeper into any of the nitty-gritties. I’m not sure how much time we have left. Just five minutes? Okay, we can take a few though. There are so many things that we didn’t get to talk about. Or if you have any other things that you’d like to add? 

Shaneen: So we were talking backstage about fashion designers- sometimes I just find that it’s really hard to find something that fits, like, my bum. Yeah, you’re right, you gotta shop around. But do you guys ever work with clients to design different clothes? Like, sometimes I have a vision for something, but what can I do to help make that happen? I’m not a fashion designer, but I like fashion, so do you ever work with clients to help design their own fit?

Martina: So that’s exactly what I do. And most of the people who come to me who want to develop a line, no one has a fashion background. I actually have a lot of doctors who are done with the medical field, and they just want to bring something with purpose. And that’s really important. If you have a vision to bring a thing with purpose, that’s what I do on a daily basis is to help people’s vision come to life.

Rae: My brand is quite different from what it used to be. When I first started out, nearly 16 years ago now, it was just me. It was just me for a long time. But I was able to get more information from my clients. Someone would send me a photo and they would say, “Can you make me this?” and I’d say, “Sure.” But that wasn’t very replicable, and it wasn’t a very sustainable vision for the company. Now I do get a lot of information from my clients in order to be able to customize a garment, but they do have to choose a garment that I have already designed.

Because it becomes too hard when you have other people making the designs. I have six makers and two other staff, and all of those people need to be taught the exact same way. Because if we make one thing a certain way, it needs to be replicated by someone else. So that’s where it gets really challenging. If it was just me, sure. I can make a one-of. But if someone’s like, make that exact same garment ten years later, it’s not going to look the same. 

So I think it’s a balance. And personally, I do try to take as much information from clients as I can. for example, in terms of accessibility, if a client comes to me and says that they want to buy my garment, but they have issues with shoulder mobility, then that’s up to me to say, what are the modifications I can make, and still know that I can send out a garment that will look and feel and fit the way it was designed. So yeah, it’s a balance.

Conclusion

Rae: This was awesome. I’m so glad to be here. And I hope that all of you can stay for the fashion show. I will be last, and you’ll see all of these designs on the runway after all the other amazing designers.